Abilities and Flaws

[Child of Flame]

Many of us are very creative about making our own abilities and flaws, but alas, many of us often use the same ones over and over that we've been using for years, such as weapon proficiencies.

I thought we'd make a rather large compendium of abilities and flaws to choose from and put them in the book, for those of us who just get stuck thinking about it during the character creation process. And of course, it would be stressed that the player would not be limited to said abilities/flaws.

Feel free to list ones we've been using forever, as there currently isn't a list for abilities and flaws. Ask for me, I'm just listing some new ideas and my idea of how they would work into the character sheet.

Abilities
-Languages: for when they become useful, of course. And you wouldn't obviously be completely fluent in other languages, you'd be like a tourist in another country with Levels 1 and 2.

-Literacy (think I'm making up stuff for a 3-Mind Human x.x...): I don't think it's necessarily implied that every character will know how to read in the time periods that we usually play in. Ask for mastery in literacy...there's over 600,000 words in the English language alone. Good luck in either time period we play in.

-Writing: Another one of those skills that isn't necessarily implied in the Dark Ages. While seemingly useless, you could ask your local militia for help in a formal letter, or even have secured yourself some outside gold as a novelist.

-Climbing/Swimming: Now I wanted to give Cassidy Climbing, but how would this work, exactly? Everybody knows to an extent how to climb, even if they've never done it. I thought that a climbing ability would just be on what kind of terrain you can accomplish such a feat. Perhaps mastery implies you can climb on some slick walls or something. Swimming...well, that speaks for itself more or less.

-Lockpicking: Maybe this was an old one. I'm not sure.

-Charm/Seduction: Yeah...I think there's a difference between the two, because being charming doesn't mean you're horny or anything like that. But neither does seduction. Either way, you get what you want.

-Reflexes: Another way to help out a character's evasion...or maybe just their dex. Another skill I wanted for Cassidy but wasn't sure how it would work.

Flaws

-Inferiority Complex: More like a personality trait, but it's a very negative one. My character Sahra would take unnecessary risks to prove she was better than everyone else. I'm not sure how this would work on the character sheet...I basically just roleplayed it out (she said things that would literally get her killed!)

-Birth Defects: Let's just say people would avoid you and it would be hard to get allies. I also thought about missing limbs and extra limbs. Sometimes it happens, and someone is born with a stubby leg...or an extra finger. That shouldn't stop them from fighting, though. It would just impede it. ^.^

-Cocky/over-confident/stubborn: You can do it, you know you can, and nobody's gonna tell you otherwise. Perhaps your character storms off alone to take on a dangerous quest, or tries to juggle knives or something. Who knows.





I'm also making an 'others' section...because while these are abilities and flaws...they can be just part of a character's personality, and not so overwhelmingly so that they're noted as an ability/flaw. *shrug*

Others
-Optimism: I just figure stress and fatigue wouldn't get to this character as much as it would normal characters. They easily bounce back from stressful situations. (Perhaps these characters can actually bring up morale in the group? I dunno)

-Pessimism: Stressful situations take it's toll on this character more than it does on other characters. (It may even bring down the morale of the group?)

[Zain Winters]

welllllllllllllllllll....weve always just considered everyone could read\write to get the whole annoyingness of DnD having that out of the way...languages wouldnt be bad, as if there was a common language for everyone and more continent based language or religion based, lockpicking has always sorta been there but almost never used. charm and seduction would..uh..basically be using allure to an advantage? <.< >.>, inferiority complex would prolly be a personality like you said , birth defects is possible..but as a flaw? not all birth defects are bad? <.< >.> (Doesnt know much on birth defects) cocky over confident and stubborn would also be personality?..they have there downfalls but can also keep you from letting a chance go <.< >.>... annnnnnnd your two others would prolly be personalitys also xD.

i guess i just kinda talked about all of yours instead of coming up with any <.< >.>....but theres a few useful in there

[Child of Flame]

I'd just figure the personality of the character (abilities or not) would work into how the events of the game played out. For example, some people say things like "that guy is honest to a fault", meaning that the person is likely to blurt out something they really shouldn't to somebody that's not supposed to know. Things like that.

And if it's implied that people know how to read and write, then an obvious flaw would be that they don't know one or the other (or both).

I got more abilities though: blacksmithing, for those of us that want to make our own special weapons (that would probably require a very high/mastery level though...) or just create normal ones to replace broken/lost weapons.

And armorer/repairer for repairing armor and weapons.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

I'm glad this thread was brought to my attention! Currently, these abilities are in the core rulebook and pending written descriptions:

Acrobatics
Allure
Animal Sympathy
Athletics
Awareness
Bartering
Charisma
Climbing
Cooking
Crafting
Disguise
Fast Healing
Item Use
Lockpicking
Lucky
Magic
Medicine
Pickpocketing
Stealth
Subject Knowledge
Superior Sense
Tracking
Weapon Proficiency


This list of flaws is currently in the book awaiting descriptions:
Addiction
Allergy
Clumsy
Dulled Sense
Envy
Gluttony
Greed
Hostility
Lust
Naive
Phobia
Pride
Short Temper
Sloth
Slow Healing
Stubborn
Unlucky
Wrath

Are any of these really stupid and in need of removal? Are there any you can think of to add?

[Zain Winters]

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[Child of Flame]

I was thinking Animal Sympathy was more like you can sense what the animal is thinking and communicate yourself to the animal. If you got into a battle with a pack of wolves, with this ability, you would be able to tell that they were trying to protect their young and they mean no harm to you. In the same vein, you may be able to recruit animals as brief allies/pets, or get them to help you for a short amount of time. That was my interpretation of it, at least.

There could be subsets of bartering, like you said: appraisal, speechcraft, etc.

Climbing...perhaps that should be a subset of Athletics? Athletics in and of itself could mean high stamina or running, but there's more to being athletic than that, of course.
So on the advantages part of your character sheet you would have
Athletics: Climbing Lv 2
Athletics: Swimming Lv 1
And so on.
I think that would help keep munchkinizing down a little bit too...

The same goes with Weapon Proficiencies. Instead of something vague such as "Swords", you should state what type of sword class your character can use: Long Sword, Short Sword, knives, Katanas, etc, etc. I know we talked about this before and it was kinda smacked down because there is only minute differences between types of swords, but from overpowering our combat-hungry players, I really think there should be some sort of rule for this.

I agree with Zain on getting rid of Lucky. The TS usually throws you a bone on a really good roll. Even bad TS'ers have a way with over-rewarding the PCs. I think Unlucky should go, too. I think Clumsy fits Unlucky well enough; we don't need two of the same disadvantage.

I'm kinda wondering about the Seven Deadly sins up there, too (envy, greed, Lust, etc), since some of them don't seem to fit up there. They are personality traits, and they are important ones as well. I don't think they should be taken as a disadvantage, but I think they should be noted in the Abilities/Flaws area so that the players remember their personality traits and play them out. I'm kinda beside myself on this one, because if we don't put it as disadvantages, then we're putting a lot of faith in the player's ability to role-play that. But not everyone is a good roleplayer.

Now I was thinking of a way around some of these...Lust, for instance, could fall under something else that could most definitely put a hamper on the character's ability to grow. Such as serial rapist. Pedophilia. Necrophilia. You know, the shit that can throw you in jail.
Greed could be translated into something like extortionist; Wrath could be Cruelty. And so on.

[DC_Desperado]

The Main problem with flaws is that a flaw is mainly detrimental in a certain point of view. What i mean by this is that without a set world for Kalarsys there is no set laws for that world to be governed. In our society Necrophillia is BAD, and if a person does it ITS BAD! but since the realm of Kalarsys is ever changing from story to story the tale spinner can change the laws in THAT realm to see necrophillia as a good thing. (don't ask why) So then the Flaw of being a Necrophilliac is no longer detrimental to the player. Too many times have i gone through character creation processes and have found my self looking at flaws from two sides of the same coin.... one side detrimental, the other helpful. When I reach this stage I immediatly throw out the flaw idea and search for another. To me a "Flaw" can have no possitive side no matter how many different angles you look at it. Which is why I think it is time for us to really start thinking critically on what we want Spyre to be. I'm not calling for immediate action but the clocks are ticking and we're not getting any younger. For us to truely determine what is good and what is bad we must have the laws in place that makes everyone see things from one angle.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Or:

Since the Tale Spinner is the one creating the world the game takes place in, they are also in control of its laws. Therefore, the Tale Spinner will have to approve each flaw used during character creation.

I'm not against creating a world for Kalarsys, but that's the way we've been doing it and I don't really see a problem with it. The problem that I -do- see is that Tale Spinners tend not to exploit these flaws, essentially giving ability points away for free. But that's a discussion for another place and time.

[DC_Desperado]

THAT is the problem. I myself im guilty of ignoring flaws so the sake of time when it comes to getting the session going.

[Child of Flame]

We're not going to throw out flaws just because some talespinners may not be good at exploiting them over others, if that's what you're trying to say. If there's nothing wrong with the system and there's something wrong with the TS, then that is something that person must work on in his or her own time. I'm not trying to be mean or nasty about that; from what you said, there doesn't seem to be a problem with the actual system for flaws and abilities.

In any case, taken from your point of view, any if not all Flaws would have some positive effect. Most of these positive effects are for the player character, though, and have no positive effect on the world they live in and the lives they affect.

As always, I illustrate my points through examples. Someone who is lusty enough to go rape a 16 year old may get the satisfaction of getting his fill, but the 16 year old is scarred from the event. Someone who is an alcoholic may temporarily be able to forget his problems and worries through alcohol, but he'll be feeling the side effects the next morning (and this may translate into stat penalties for that day). A greedy person may get tons of money for himself, but the businesses around him become hurt through his practices and thus certain items will not be available for him to purchase (or, hundreds go starving into the streets due to his acts).

Essentially, then, a flaw would do more harm then good. Aside from phobias or allergic reactions, there are not many flaws that are 100% negative for the player.

While things such as necrophilia may be accepted in some parts of the world, or at the very least, contain a lenient punishment for the act, it would be an act that would be generally looked down upon (even if they weren't caught in the act; corpses tend to smell pretty bad, you know. That smell lingers on the player...you know.) and the character could be punished severely for it.

Therefore, Spyre, like any other world or society out there, would contain universal laws that are accepted by the overwhelming majority. Therefore, there could be cults that go against these laws, and the characters in your game could choose to come from these cults or you could even choose to play in such a setting.

But universal laws do exist. I'm not even going to debate about this. Give me a society that has ever thrived that hasn't outlawed:
-murder
-the act of rendering another being helpless, physically or emotionally
-the act of demolishing entire cities or destroying resources that everyone uses and needs.

The antagonists may be exempt from such laws for plot convenience's sake, but player characters should NEVER get away with such acts, and thus defines flaws as flaws. The players take these flaws for their characters, knowing full well the repercussions of having these flaws.

-End nerd rage-

[hawk]

what would you classify light sleeper as then

[Child of Flame]

A light sleeper is more of an ability, to me. If they had a 6 in light sleeping, however, it would border on being an insomniac (which is a flaw); you're waking up to every little sound you hear at night. I'm not the end all to be all here, so I'd like to hear Lurid's thoughts on the matter, and you're prolly looking for his input anyway.

Now that I think about it, that begs the question if an ability could transform into a flaw, and vice versa (should it have a counterpart).

Whereas a heavy sleeper would be more of a flaw, since that generally isn't very helpful. In an emergency (fire, attack, etc), where every second must be spent wisely, a groggy character with the heavy sleeper flaw would waste valuable time just trying to get out of bed. Even on the road, precious hours of traveling are wasted waiting for a heavy sleeper to awaken. But you didn't ask about that. I figure I'd put that down if anyone did question it, though.
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UPDATE/EDIT: Well, I talked to Lurid about this, and he agreed that Light Sleeper would be an ability. However, to answer my own question, flaws can't become abilities later in the game, and vice versa. Lurid described abilities being more of something the character has control over (in stark contrast to flaws, where a character can't just stop being an alcoholic, or just decide one morning they're not going to be afraid of heights anymore).

[Nocturnal Angel]

can i suggest fire making be put into abilitys i noticed alot of use are camping retarted when it comes to this.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

How about a general Camping skill? It will include general outdoorsman activities such as fire-building, finding and creating campsites, finding water and supplies, etc.

[Nocturnal Angel]

that actually makes it easier with spening ability points and such. thanks lurid