Kalarsys: The After Chronicles

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Well, Perilaxis, there's something I like about that idea and something I don't like.

I like that you got the idea from House.

I don't like that it's something that cannot be gained and lost. Consider: A human. His genes have made him so, and it is his RACE. He's a freelancer, an adventurer with no specialty. This is his CLASS. He joins an eidolon society because he's a hippie at heart or some crap like that. Suddenly his CLASS changes, because CLASSES can do that. He's still human, and he will be for the rest of his life. It is his RACE, something encoded into his DNA, something static. He decides to go against eidolon teachings for his own personal gain. For shame! Woe is he, for now he has been removed from the eidolon society and Spyre's spirit no longer grants his spells! The eidolon has become a freelancer once again, his CLASS changed. But his humanity remains, as he is quite human, a fact of his genetic makeup, and his RACE.

Are we getting the difference between race and class yet?

[Perilaxis]

yes I see your point and I'm so very glad i'm not being treated like i'm an idiot because i'm trying but unless we want all Zinshou to, in their backstory, have been freelancers to begin with Zinshou become all but impossible to have. Also History hasn't been written yet but we need some explanation for the first Zinshou who were they and more importantly (in this case) how did they become Zinshou? Were they freelancers who stumbled upon Zinshou parts and implanted them? Also like everything I think it would take time and training to access the and use the "modified DNA" so you could have Eidolons who have the POTENTIAL to be Zinshou but because they never learned to use it they never do. Likewise you could have a Zinshou decide to become an eidolon the teachings of that society and the magic itself would supress the Zinshou training.

Right now the only other reasonable answer I can see is some type of body modifing virus or something, which is vampirism knock off or copyrighted by Prototype so until another explanation is found that is agreeable (did I forget to mention that Joe did hear this before I posted it) it the accepted answer by default because it seems to be the only answer.

[Zain Winters]

well, if its the parts that do it, why not you know think outside realism for once and just say the body parts modify the blood or actually not even explain what it modifies, and then when two zenshous mate another zenshou is born, i mean if two eidolons mate, then yeah a human would be born (if both were human of course) but then those two parents would teach the eidolon way to the child and eventually he would be one untill he learned free will of course, but by zenshou ways why not basically the same thing. no we dont have a history on them at all. but combining two demonic parts in sexual..ways would prolly just spawn a kid with those kind of parts or something like that. i mean we could go as far to say the part DOES mess with the DNA and a ritual could remove the part and that part of the DNA. thus making him a freelancer again. in a way thats how the eidolons do it, spyre just gets pissed, and tells this guy to fuck off and viola hes a freelancer, same with zenshous, they get pissed. force the ritual on him, and viola hes a freelancer again. so it could be DNA related but this is magic bitches! who the fuck cares?

[Lt. Pwnage]

I was thinking and Gmidge agrees that Zen Shou's should go back to being race. It was a Race to begin with and maybe it should be stay that way, it's just it would get Race bonues and not get a class at all. Like it could still get plus to Str from Race bonuses and what not. that why the DNA think is not too much of issue. And the way Perilaxis explained actually made some good sense.

[Child of Flame]

It should, probably. It's getting very complicated trying to make it a class. But this is DCs book and it's really up to DC more or less to change that if he really wants (because you know...Zenshou is a class in The After Chronicles and in The After Chronicles ONLY).

[Lurid Sorcerer]

I think most of us are getting it by now, but I just want to state once again:
Race: Determined by DNA, what your genetics determine you are.
Class: Your profession, what you have trained to become.

Well, it seems that most of us are thinking the same thing: the Zenshou make much more sense as a race. Okay, so then will we have Zenshou training to become Eidolons, then? o.0 Weird, but an interesting kind of weird.

Like I said, Zain and I talked at length about Zenshou and Eidolons to sensibly come up with ways that they could be classes rather than races, as they previously were. Sure enough, Eidolons weren't too hard to deal with on the surface. Just make it a religion that can use magic! Coming up with the details of this religion proved to take much, much longer and if I ever get around to trying to decipher our conversation I'll be sure to post the interesting things we came up with.

Most of what we came up for the Zenshou, however, was that they travel in packs, eat uncooked food, can shift their Zenshou parts into human form but are more comfortable in Zenshou form, and finally that their elders know rituals for bringing people in and removing people from the pack. These initiation and excommunication rituals would result in the development and removal of the Zenshou parts, as well as the tendency to eat only raw food and what-not. We came up with more detailed stuff, I'm sure, but in the long run it just makes more sense, to me anyway, to make Zenshou a race again rather than justify it being a class. Though I have to admit that coming up with justifications for sensibly making it a class was a lot of fun to me.

OH, AND IT'S SPELLED "ZENSHOU", BY THE WAY.
I pasted this in the other thread, but it makes much more sense here.

[GMidge]

Ok, Hiya guys. OMG, it took me this freaking long to get on here and spout of my ideas. Most of you know me, but not all of you. Those of you who dont know me, i am a friend to Perilaxis, Lt.Pwnge, Nocturn Angel, DC, and Lurid. I thought up the fighter class and got it working for now with the help of Everyone in the above statement . If you guys have any questions bout me feel free to ask me anything. Im going to warning that you may not like my ideas and i do have a tendency to be arrogant, plz look past that and dont get pissed if i oppose your view . OH and if you guys want me to chose a different pic i can, i just really like this one lol and i want sure what you guys would say when i grabbed it.

Now then, My ideas if anyone cares lol

Copywrite: um...duh...DO IT!!!!!! lol

Unblockable Damage: In my opinion is dumb, and i say dont use it. Making 6s unblockable damage on your STR, is kinda dumb, (in my opinion) because if you get hit by a creature and it got 2 sixes, that mean 2 unblockable damage would go through, right? Well what if they got a STR roll of 4 and 2 of that 4 is unblockable and you got a Vit roll with your armor included and got 7, so in other words you TANKED the hit, but you would take 2 from sixes being unblockable, wtf? lol. In my opinion nothing should ever be unblockable/unsoakable/unabsorbable UNLESS the inside of your body is the target, EX. if an edilion used mind control and focused enough to hurt the target, because its targeting/ hurting their mind not their body. But thats just the way i see it, if im not understanding this right plz tell me lol.

Evasion Rolls: Um ok, i Like Lt.P's idea and say we should atleast give it a try. However, your TS should NEVER have more that 2 creatures targeting one person at a time, so if you have to dodge that much, the TS hates you and wants your character dead or is new to TS-ing lol. I mean i did that to Perilaxis, Lt.P, and Nocture Angel. I mean they had ways to get an advantage somewhere in the area they just had to figure it out, and they didnt and everyone got owned and i was very much so hated lol.
I agree with Lt.P on the Evasion/attack timing. It makes sense.

Zenchou issue: I have a solution, It makes sense. Um why not try to idk...um MAKE THEM A RACE AGAIN? Now i say this because i agree with Perilaxis and i thought/felt the same way. A Zenchou is made and special because of DNA. Human and a separate set that you could access to defend yourself, think real animals like Blowfish, they get bigger and have poison as a defense mechanism. Sounds like a Zenchou to me lol. With Zenchou being a class you could just drop the class if you wanted to, go back to being a freelancer, and be something else. Makes no sence if you do it the, "Oh! that Zenchou dropped his part, hey freelancer wanna be a Zenchou? Just get the part painfully put in you." idea becasue if you do that its like a transfusion, you have to have something in your body to accept it, as in Blood or DNA that is close enough to the Zenchou's, and if that happens its gonna match/ be parallel to your DNA now, or its gonna get rejected and you cant use it and you cut your arm open for no reason. Also you wouldnt have a Zenchou form, because that has to do with DNA, You would have a Zenchou part instead. EX. "Yes, Zenchou armblade SWEET. im gonna go get this part put into me." SEVERAL DAYS LATER "Ok, now im gonna use my new arm blade, since my body accepted it, come on guys lets kick some ass! im gonna look so sweet in battle." THEN THEY GET TO THE FIGHT "Ok guys lemme have this one i can do it with my new blade." after a couple of hits and blocks, if you wanna to be SEMI realistic, that part would rip and tear at your flesh/skin or where ever your part is at, because your body wouldnt be use to it and you dont have the setup the dead Zenchou had to be able to actually use it effectively, plus you wouldnt be able to put it away. Zenchou's would still have their First set of DNA which would make them look human just as before in the book. SO to make do this work i say, They should be a specialty Race, like we have special classes. You wouldnt get a class, because you wouldnt need one.

Fighter class: Now i made this class with the help of most of you. Well i need your opinion because i've tested the fighter over and over again, and they cant do any damage what so ever. Like i may have a combo hit Lvl 4 and be able to hit those extra times but im not doing any damage. I came up with a solution that i have already gotten a little feed back on, an advantage that is fighter only and it makes sense. I call it Momentum, not many will like it but hear me out on this because 1. its physics, 2. REAL fighters use it. I'll explain it as the advantage. Momentum is effective only if your using combo hit. But say your Momentum is lvl 2, and your combo hit is lvl we'll say 4, so you can hit your 4 times by spending your 4 points to do so, you hit all 4 times, with momentum your first damage roll would just be your STR like normal, the second would be str+1, the third str+2, your 4th hit would be str+2 as well because your momentum is lvl2 so you cant go higher than your lvl in the added damage ex. momentum 1 with combo hit 4 would be str, then str+1, then str+1 again, then str+1 again cause your monentum is only level one. Now i was told by DC that this was DUMB because he said that with Best case scenario you could easily drop a creature in one shot. Now i understand that, and yes that COULD happen but the likely hood is like 1 in 20 or 30 that you could do that because i did a couple of test runs with it. My Character had a str of 4 and at momentum 3 and a combo hit 3, against an average starting character with a Vit of 3 and NO armor, i did this battle once with DC sorta watching and another 9 times at home cause i was curious, and of those 10, even with momentum, 7 did absolutely no damage and the guy had a vit of 3 WITHOUT armor, and the other 3, the first one i do admit did 5 total damage by the end of the entire combo hit w/ momentum, (still not much) the second did 2 damage and the last did 1. Now any one with a weapon get pluses for damage right? Well this is the fighters why of doing it, because they cant do it any other way. Case/point if a fighter hits and has a str of 4, thats all they get to roll is 4 dice because they dont have a weapon, and someone else could have a str of 4 and roll 6 dice cause of the weapon, well think of it as a fighters way to be leveled out with everyone else. OH and the physics part is simple, The faster you hit the harder the hit, (and dont fight me on physics i'll win lol) Ex. Wakka FF10 and his ball, in blitzball he just throws it to his teammates but in battle he uses the ball's momentum to cause damage cause of the speed and force he is throwing with . THOUGHTS ON THIS ONE PLZ, i would like insight on how to fix/make this work.

Defenders: i have been thinking about how some are complaining about Defenders being to powerful. So we made it so magic damage is against your WIL instead of VIT. GREAT idea i like it and say it should stay. Now Lt and I have an idea, how about defenders cant wear armor? Because they were trained and hit/beaten without it and are so use to not using it, why would they us it after training? They could think it would hold them back, or that they are to tough for armor. Now i as for being too powerful that can dumb it down a bit. Now, In DC session that we have going at the moment i made a defender, and he was a meat shield and thats the only thing he could do, his ACC was so low that he could never hit, even with my weapons prof lvl 5, and still only did little damage if he ever hit, and that was at the start, well now we are like 15sesions give or take a few into this one and it hasnt changed much, defenders cant hit at all, or hurt at all but they are meat shields like they were meant to be. With the magic damage "soaking" being Will now, i say that adding them not being able to wear armor would make things a bit better to. Plus the Edilions can now say "Yay we aren't the only ones not allowed wearing armor."

Again i know im arrogant and im sry i cant help it. Some of you may or may not like my ideas but hey figured i would just throw them out there. ;D

There its in the right spot??? lol

[DC_Desperado]

*gets back after a few days with no internet*

"Ok, ok.... time to throw in with this lot."

1.) Its a good point that with theos idea it sounds more like a race.... however, lets say that every person in spyre had this genetic anomaly... but what if the zenshou are the ones that figured out they had it and how to use it? This little factoid could be that ancient guarded secret of the Zenshou... much to how the Eidolons <--(correct spelling) connection with the planet in what gives them there power... thus being there secret. The techniques a character has to learn to be the class is not free knowledge to the world... if it were then you'd have people with many subclasses to build a giant mess of missmatched abilities. So i vote that Zenshou stay a class... "usually the harder road is the must fruitful." Yes, making them a race would be easier... however... they way that it sounds... theres not much going to be seperating them from the monsters that we all fight... so... then that leads to the question... should zenshous be a non-playable being and just be a monster?.... I already know the answer.... just making a point.

2.) I can argue physics. especially in kalarsys... with momentum... your saying that the more you hit... the harder you hit. How? If you have a STR of 4 and you incorperate all 4 in your DMG roll then your already hit has hard as your body can... sure this can be suplimented by the use of combat knowledge... like a prof in a type of martial arts... which would act the same as a weapon prof. I understand the logic that if i punch you in the arm... and then hit you there again with the same amount of force.. the second hit would FEEL more damaging. Plus your not looking all a fighter has to offer. Since they are only using fists... this counts has a blunt weapon and has a chance with each hit to stun your opponent... You may do no DMG... but maybe a team mate can... in Kalarsys... no man/women is an army. plus... you were rolling characters stats equal to a character lvl:.5 .... lets take a look a the long run here. You develope a character along some key attributes of ACC DMG and EVA. so your focus was STR, CON, and EVA. So... lets look at the Seasoned Fighter.

Fighter:
STR:6 INT:4 CON: 6
VIT: 4 WIL: 4 DEX: 6
base ACC: 6
DEF: 4
EVA: 7

Equipment: ACC DMG
fists: ( 6)+2 (STR)+2

Adv:
Martial arts: lvl 4
Combo: lvl 3
...Non-combat stuff...?

Dis-adv:
...more non-combat...?

Here is our fighter.... not sure what makes combo points so... he has a few. so lets say your going up againts a bandit... which stats should be around our fights.

Bandit: * readers digest version*
ACC: 5
DEF: 6
EVA: 6
DMG: 6

Now lets say you got the first stike and this guy was you only opsticle. The fighter wants to make this quick. * note: im using the dice roller so im not being bias if the fighter wins the match, believe me or not... i REALLY dont care.* The fighter attacks... the bandit dodges with a roll off. The bandit attacks... Fighter dodges. Fighter attacks using three combo points...Hit with three 6's... * im not sure if 6's carry in a combo hit so i wont include them this time* first hit does.... 0.0 ... even i'll admit that 8 DMG but that was the roll the generator gave me... but for the sake battle... i will roll the DEF... and got 4. Total dmg for the first hit 4. Odd or even roll... i say Odd... and generator agrees * for once T.T* So the bandit is now stunned... auto hit on Second attack... total DMG is... 1 DMG... ( can you restun a stunned person? seriously?) ... for the sake of battle i say no in this senario....Last attack...hit after one roll off... total Dmg....1....Grand total:6 DMG is one action....bandit is unstunned do to the other attacks and attacks...hits after two roll offs.... total DMG...2.... Fighter attacks spending 2 combo points.... first attack...hits.... total DMG...0....Odd/Even... i say Even.....and its odd... second attack....Miss.... Bandit attacks.... miss in a roll off.... Fighter attacks....hit.... total DMG...0... Odd/Even... i say even.... I got lucky.... enemy is stunned and cannot act on his turn.... Fighter attacks... hit...total DMG...1... Bandit is unstunned and attacks....miss.... Fighter attacks with 2 spent combo points... first attack...hit...total DMG...1....Odd/Even... i say Odd....the roller says even.... Second attack...miss... Grand Total DMG 1.... Bandit attacks...Counterattack....Total Dmg...0.... * i cried on the inside T.T* Fighter attacks...hit... total DMG...4... Bandit drops... I guestimated he had between 10 to 12 hp...

All in all, it was a GREAT battle... but still... this is how a decent battle should flow... it should NOT be rape in one action... i know its dissapointing to get no dmg on your turn, but it happens to everyone. All you can do is develope your character... and pray for the best...I dont think they need momentum for a few reasons.

1.) They can already hit more than once...
2.) even if no dmg is done... it can still stun so someone else can do more dmg...
3.) momentum would make them to powerful too quickly...

im sure i can find more reasons but this post is long enough... as for everything else... i'll prolly double post, and talk about that...

[Zain Winters]

you know, i didn't even know the fighter was a fist class <.< gmidge you gotta tell us that XD. any who it seemed to do pretty well and of course i think the zenshou should stay a class. and your reasoning behind how they work works pretty well, i still like mine cause it has MAGIC! but yours is at least more realistic by a lot *mumble mumble rant rant about realism in kalarsys cause no one has an open enough mind to believe ludicrous ideas* soo and i know you just asked if they should be a monster or an NPC just for kicks, but were all aware of the possible volleyball fist to that question and making them playable. Zenshous are fun as hell to play, no way are we taking that away...at all...and with the numbers up there the fighter doesnt look as bad as it sounded before d(^.^)b

[GMidge]

Zain, yes the fighter is a fist only class, i thought someone would have told you that and im sry i didnt mention it.

DC, no you cant stun more than once in a turn and combo hit CANT stun, because the way i see it is that you stun the person if you call shot the head and hit, other than that it cant stun with any blunt, i would say it would have to be to the head to actually stun. Sixes DONT carry with momentum, and i will admit, i did forget to add in the martial arts/weapons prof. w/e you wanna call it for this scenerio and that does make a difference... But momentum is used all the time with actuall fighters, so i say we do SOMETHING with it.
You will STILL probobly bitch about it and say no, but momentum is not imagainary and The FASTER you hit the HARDER you hit, THAT is what momentum does, you get faster with your punches... you dont get stronger. Momentum is F=MA, as in force= Mass times Accerelation. you cant increase your mass so you get FASTER and there for hit HARDER. That is what i was trying to get at. And yes i do see that they can be powerful at the start, but again you cant stun with combo hit, sixes DONT carry and i did simulation rolls to and this time with the M/arts added, with a fighter that had 4 str and a combo hit lvl 3 and momentum lvl 3 (so an extra 2 damage), and the oppenet had 3 vit with no armor and i still did no damage for 7 of the 10, the other 3 i did little damage and momentum was included also you have to remeber combo hit is like putting 3 turns or what ever into one attack, and if you do the math, out of 30 turns i did a total of 10 damage when i did it. You want this to be semi relistic? then i say we should find some way to have momentum with fighters. and i did my math with a starting off Fighter, not one that had gotten exp, because you are suppose to get stronger...and if i remeber right in FF8 Zell can do more than Squall and faster but then again thats how i built my zell...lol but w/e i would like others imput on it not just you and your Hip Attachment Scott, that have the same brain apperently lol.

The next session you ts DC i will make a fighter and we'll see how it goes, and i WONT us momentum, if i see that its un-needed then ok, i'll drop it, but until then im not going to, because every single one i make couldnt do damage at all.

Zain thanks for the imput, even though its against my idea, atleast you havent been throwing it in my face lol

[DC_Desperado]

well.... why wounldnt it stun an opponent... its a blunt weapon... and if it hits it should stun... a mace or mual are blunt... they dont need call shots to stun. And the faster you hit doesnt mean harder... you've said you watch UFC and boxing... ect..... then tell me what the difference between a jab and a haymaker.... I can tell you easily....

... the Jab is the quick punched used to were an opponent down or create and opening... in no way is the jab intended to be the strongest punch because its the fastest... The haymaker is the diseal semi-truck of punches... its considerably slower but it is the no lie wrecking ball to the face or body.... it is true that powerful punches are not always the slowest... but speed does not mean strength.

( and just because i keep proving that you dont need something you clearly think you do... dont get pissy with me there shortstack... just cause your gay doesn't make you right. As for scott, me and him think alike because we both can see the same errors.)

Although.. I do have to say that what you mention with the defenders... it was intriging. it actually made me think. And i do think it is test worthy.... so koodoos

[GMidge]

ok your right, and im right in a sence. You wouldnt just use a jab in your combo with momentum, i personally would jab like 2 or 3 and then end with a haymaker. This like shows and explains somethings and can help us decide on this. and it says a haymaker is stronger and such i know that, it also says a haymakers power comes from MOMENTUM, so you build it up to do more damage XD. Again thats how i would end my combo anyway, i say that the last hit could stun because its a haymaker but go to this link and read what it says on haymakers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_(combat)

[DC_Desperado]

Good use of Wiki....

I was talking with CoF... and she thinks that a momentum like property can be aplied when both combo.. and weapon prof are maxed for its special... this i can see and agree with seeing as though the specials are supposed to break logic anyways

what do you think gmidge...?

[GMidge]

lol like that did you DC, lmao. ok well it shutsme up and we have other things that have 2 maxed advantages, sure why not sounds Great. Thanks ;D (Writes on calander that Joe and I agreed) lmao

[DC_Desperado]

More into the Zenshou issue... I stand beside the genics of the world as a birth solution... As for the freelancers... I dont think its just... " Hey i just chopped off my arm and stiched this one in place." I think this aspect needs some attention, because if we go with the zenshous learned of their genitic "mutation" and were able to master it.... so in a way... a freelancer would be able to do the same...but i too like the ability of a zenshou bone piece being a catalyst to their transformation. I need help.... we might be able to use both... I have an idea but i want to pick a brain.