kalarsys: The After Chronicles Beastiary

[DC_Desperado]

One of the biggest problems on the books new release is that of a complete beastiary. I will most likely release the new book without the beastiary being complete. This greatly effects the outcome for our tamer class.

Instead of a tamer's "pet" changing into a celestial form for x amount of turns with an x amount of a stat boost; we have turned the tamer in more of a poke mon kind of direction.

All monsters/ creatures in the beastiary have a set of tiers of evolution. some Monsters/Creatures cannot be tamed.

So lets cut to the chase.... this is a request to everyone that wants to perticipate in coming up with your own monsters/ creatures to inhabit the After Chronicles world of Spyre... also this beastiary does not soley have to be just for the AC it can be universal and be used in the Core book as well.

Here are the rules however....

1. DO NOT MAKE ANY DRAGONS, DRAGON-LIKE, or DRAGON-ISH TYPE CREATURES... we already have this one taken care of.
2. must include stats and desciption.
3. must have eating habits... (herbivore, carnivore, omnivore.)
4. must have personality... ( 1-6 hostillity: 1 being the lowest.)
5. must be either physical or Magical (note: physical creatures have higher STR. VIT. DEX.....Magical have higher INT. WIL. CON.)
6. must state if it is tameable or not.
7. Must have at 4 tiers of transformation.*
8. be creative and have fun as always.

The only Creature that has a fifth tier is the dragon type... so far... if you wish to have your creature / monster to have a fifth tier there better be a damn good reason for it having one... simply put... " The fifth tier is the thing myths and legends come from" In other words the dragons have a fifth tier... yet it has no description because no one in spyre has ever seen one and/ or lived to tell about it....

All creature/ monster ideas can be submitted here or you can email me at...

[e-mail]

[Child of Flame]

Sounds like fun...but what exactly are tiers?

Lurid already explained this to me some, but it's worth repeating for everyone else's sake, and for clarification on my part.

I suppose my question about tiers is: is the animal on the first tier able to evolve to the other tiers, or are they all different types and yet very similar in nature?

For example, a worm becomes a cocoon becomes a butterfly, and they're all the same being.

But a cat can't become a panther, a tiger, and lastly a lion. Those are all different types of beasts that the tamer could summon as he/she becomes better at taming.

[DC_Desperado]

Tiers are in a way a form of evolving....

in poke mon blue /red terms pikachu has to tiers....pikachu... and riachu(sp?)

Geodude has three tiers... Geodude... gravler(sp?)... golem.

I understand that a house cat and a tiger are seemingly to different animals... however what we are trying to accomplish with the beastiary and the tamers is a speedy form of evolution. A tamer can start with a house cat... and as the cat battles and gains xp it can tranform into its second tier or stage.

What it all comes down to is if you see a tiger out on the field, you as a tamer can think..." Hmm that creature is in its 2nd/3rd tier". Its just another way to look at evolution.... instead of taking a mass amount of time to change something... its the xp that changes it.

example:
Dragon type:

Tiers:

1st: Wyrm
2nd: Drake
3rd: Wyvern
4th: Dragon
5th: Elder Dragon

there all different creatures but the evolution tiers show the change in power that the creatures wield. I know this wasnt the best explination in the world but i hope that this clears a litttle bit of it up.

[Child of Flame]

Before I begin what may be a long discussion, let me just ask one more thing. For further clarification, does the tamer level coincide with the 'tiers' of evolution, say a Tier 4/5 creature is on the Rank 5/6 level of a tamer? Obviously, a Rank 1 Tamer isn't going to control a powerful Elder Dragon, so I was wondering)

So, onto the main reason for my post. I'm not sure I like the idea that they evolve. I think there's more room for opportunity for the tamer if each creature is it's own ...erm, creature. This would give some limits to how good/strong a particular creature could be, and give more choices for the tamer as they proceed up

I'll illustrate my point with an example (as always).
I am a fledgling tamer and I take my pet house cat with me as my first tamed pet. As my level of taming increases, I realize my cat is just not as strong as her feral cousins in the wild. She could even get killed if I continue to take her along on my adventures. Tearfully, I leave her in the care of a friend as I search for a stronger creature...

I now have several choices I could make. "Should I attempt to tame a bobcat? A cougar? A panther?" Or, "Shall I continue my adventures with my cat anyway and hone my abilities a little further so that I may attempt to tame a tiger or a lion"?

In short, not having the animal evolve gives the tamer more ability to actually test out their taming abilities (instead of being given one animal in the beginning, like Pokemon >.>), and gives them more choices of what they want to tame.

So for instance, instead of cat -> panther -> tiger -> lion, it could be
Tier 1: Cat (domesticated or feral)
Tier 2: Bobcat, Leopard Cat, etc.
Tier 3: Cougar, Panther, Lynx, etc.
Tier 4: Tigers, Lions, Jaguars, etc

And perhaps some of those animals would have capabilities for evolutions. For example, an Ocelot (yes this IS[/b] a type of cat, and that's enough about that, please) is similar enough to a Leopard that it may eventually evolve into one (in Spyre, at least).

Even if some animals have some capability for evolution, this should not be the case for all beasts in the beastiary. Whether you're on Spyre or on Earth, having every animal capable for evolution is stretching it a little.

However, having evolution tiers should not be discouraged either. Many a story could be spun from a tamer who has a unique journey with his wyrm from a baby wyrm to a full, mature Elder Dragon.

Thus ends my debate, for now. Thank you for your patience, DC, and I pray you will entertain my thoughts for a little bit longer. XD

sources:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae

[DC_Desperado]

First off, Yes the level of tamer does effect its ability to control more powerful creatures. Its very unlikely to see a lvl1 tamer have a lion as a pet.

You do not have to worry about me entertaining you thoughts. You do make a lot of valid points and equally valid suggestions. However, even when thinking logically on the possibillities for kalarsys, I have to take a step back and say " This fantasy game may have a lot of the laws that govern earth but its still not earth."

When I say this I begin to think " well, if this isn't earth, then what is it? What is it like? If i were to be there right now what would i see?"

I know that logically thought of creatures rapidly "evolving" like some kind of video game is ubsured. I also know that removing the "evolving" process could lead to more careful decisions ( More so then there already are -.-'); and you can ask Lurid, Budden, and ZW... I used to be the biggest advocate for logic in kalarsys. Its wasnt until.... well... I dont know when, but logic became to confining... to many rules... to many laws... Thats when I decided that sometime to make sense you had to make no sense... to go up you must go down... suddenly possibillities laid before me and i had the pick of the litter. Its when you defy these rules that the Heaven's Spear ( ZW weapon of choice) can provide many functions like its signiture "Dragon Beam".

Getting to my point... Looking at things from a logical stand point is very important when looking at structure, but throw away logic when it comes to function.

I shall hold on to your thoughs of tamer use, but in return you must hold on to mine.

^_^

[Perilaxis]

If I may weigh in.... *snickers at obvious fat guy pun*..... not sure if anyone else knows of the book (and later movie) the Golden Compass. If not the premise I want to point out is that each human has an animal companion called Daemons these were a representation of a persons soul. If I'm not mistaken ether is just an extension of the soul and that tamers don't have a pool to draw on themselves, what if a tamed animal had a piece of the tamers soul and that's what allowed control, due to the magical bond of that taking place would allow for evolution as well. This would also explain why it wouldn't be possible for a starting tamer to control a lion or a elder dragon the animals own soul would over power and expel the tamer's.

[Zain Winters]

yeah yeah dont come to me about logical d(~.^)n, if you frustrate me too much ill just yell "IM THE TALESPINNA BEEYOTCH" although i havent had to do that in some time and really i think jac is one of the few that has made me have to do that in the passed two years...(Although in the recent session i actually did explain how the Heaven Spear works slightly..maybe i should right that down to please myself...hm..)

anyways, i cant say im all for the evolving, but of course they can level right? i mean im pretty much agreein with cof on this. im not to sure about having a magical bond with the animal like perilaxis is saying, it would tie up loose ends and keep it kinda possibly soild, but when i think tamer i kinda think no magical mumbo jumbo at all.

although..ill have to get back to you on this subject cause my mind is on other things but ill definatly get something constructive!

[Child of Flame]

Peril: What you described sounds more like Zain's Summoning Book, wherein the beast is literally created from the summoner in question, once their training in an element is complete. The beast never evolves (at least, not yet), but grows in proportion to the summoner, as the two are connected.

In any case, what you said explains -nothing- about why a novice trainer can't tame a higher animal: imagine you trying to confront a lion with absolutely no experience whatsoever with taming. You are going to get MAULED. Seriously. That has nothing to do with souls, it's a friggin reflex reaction to animals trying to protect themselves. Either way, as far as I have read between the AC rulebook, taming has nothing to do with souls and the like. You tame an animal. You grow with animal. The end.

--------------------------------
In any case, you equally make good arguments, DC. I am all for animals that evolve over time, I just don't think all tamable animals should have the capability for evolution. I agree that it is a fantasy world where many things should be able to happen because it would just be a lot better that way, but every world comes with it's own law of physics and limitations.


EDIT: Just made it clear who the hell I'm talking to here.

[Perilaxis]

Gee Thanks CoF. I really apreciate that you tear down my idea with straight out logic then in the next paragraph agree whole heartedly with DC about this being a FANTASY game. Great job. And I really must apologize to you personally for being a dolt.... I mean how could I have missed the obvious fact that a novice ANYTHING wouldn't be as good as a seasoned vetran at any given skill REGARDLESS of how its explained? thanks for pointing that out.

It has been awhile since ive read Zains book but from what you tell me nyone with half a brain cell could tell they are SIMILAR but not exactly the same. The idea was put out without detail becuase its not my book that means I dont have the final say on anything I simply grease the wheels and help the real power see what does and does not work well. I leave out details because Im a generalist, and most of my ideas can lead to others both mine and everyone elses, that could work better than the orginal suggestions. I leave out details so that we can have a maliable source to work with, and perhaps Ive grown to accustumed to haveing the people around me get that and work with it allow me to correct my mistake.

A tamer is one that works with animals. since we are so very found of logic, in real life a tamer takes YEARS to learn how to do it and for things like lions tigers bears elephants ect. it takes YEARS to train that animal, usually starting from the moment they are born and even once its trained it can at anytime turn back and kill the trainer or a bystander. Given this logic how can we expect a tamer to be able to tame ANY kind of non domesticated animal when its an adult and why would we bother when in combat or anything else a juvenile would be USELESS. to rectify this I suggest that a tamer be able to put a portion of their soul (the higher the level the bigger the peice and the better they are at integrating it and the better they are at using it as a medium of control) into an animal companion (and for the record I just realized this sounds WAY more like a Harry god damn Potter reference than anything). This DOES explain why a novice tamer would not want to try to tame an elder dragon or a lion because they would not be able to place a large enough piece of themselves or integrate it into the animal well enough to take control. Perhaps if next time a question or two to at least ATTEMPT to understand the idea before a general tear down (followed by a contradiction) would be a most recomended course of action from all of us.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

I agree that it is a fantasy world where many things should be able to happen because it would just be a lot better that way, but every world comes with it's own law of physics and limitations.

Gee Thanks CoF. I really apreciate that you tear down my idea with straight out logic then in the next paragraph agree whole heartedly with DC about this being a FANTASY game.

I'm not sure why you're getting upset about this. It IS a fantasy game and she stated there should be limitations. I don't see the whole-hearted agreement you mentioned.

Also, I'm getting a nasty vibe from that post. I'd really hate to see a discussion like this have to come to a bitter end because one or more of us couldn't handle some sort of criticism.

Anyway...

As for evolution, I think there should be some factor of being gradual. Perhaps we could assign average point values to each tier, and as the tamed partner's average stat value increases, they steadily transform from one tier to the next.

For instance, let's say for felines we have:
Tier1: 0 - 4
Tier2: 5 - 7
Tier3: 8-11
Tier4: 12+ (different for dragons, of course)

As the tamer's cat grows stronger, it's average value for it's stats will increase, and as this average moves up to 4, it starts looking more and more like a bobcat, and at 5 it is fully a bobcat.

[Zain Winters]

that sounds pretty good to me, keeps it original (as far as i know).

[DC_Desperado]

Thank you Lurid!

Lurid is right... this thread is not a place for arguments and hostillity! It will not be tolerated again, I will personally see to it.

Now... Perilaxis, I see how your idea would be effective (and much like harry potter-.-) and it would solve the problem of tamers not having an EP gauge. However I do agree with lurids evolutionary requirements.

When it comes to game mechanics the tames need an EP gauge and the creatures need an evolution chart, something that shows what a pet needs to do to go to the next level.

Lets not forget that this thread was for creating monsters/ creatures and not for the discussion of tamer mechanics. Even though the new info is very much appriciated ^^.

But lets all try to be more civil with one another and keep in mind that everyone's oppinion has value.

[Child of Flame]

Ha, that's a good point. I've only vaguely come up with some ideas for a cat-type class, however, I'm still unclear of what your final decision is regarding evolutions and the like.

Assuming that the rest of the conversation here never took place, this was going to be my example, albeit very generic. Ah well, if anything else, it can serve as ...some...sort of example of what you're looking for and what needs to be changed and whatnot. Here goes nothing!

Cat[/u]
A carnivorous, agile animal that can come in many different breeds and colors. Stands on four legs and uses its tail for balance. An aggressive creature that can be quite affectionate when tamed. A hunter by nature, cats will kill their food before they eat it.

Hostility of 2
Physical stature, with an emphasis on Dexterity.
Starting Stats:
BMS all 2
STR 3, VIT 3, INT 3, WIL 3, CON 2, DEX 4

As the cat grows stronger, he/she has the ability to evolve into
Tier 2: Bobcat (tamable, hostility 3 if found in wild, emphasis on DEX)
Tier 3: Lynx (tamable, Hostility 4 if found in wild, emphasis on DEX)
Tier 4: Lion (tamable, Hostility 6 if found in wild, emphasis is on STR/DEX)

Special Note: A cat and his/her subsequent evolutions will be unable to evolve until it meets a certain DEX requirement, along with the usual requirements (tamer's tamer level, overall strength of the creature, etc)
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Lurid, I like the idea that the evolution would be gradual and would reflect the average of the tamed beasts' stats, although, because there aren't any upper limits to stats in Kalarsys (and there won't be any), such averages stated could be easily passed for a game where the average stats may be 100 or something. o.o

So in essence, the DEX requirement for my cats here would be scaled accordingly. So if the average stat required to have a lynx evolve into a lion is a 12, I would say that the DEX has to be two above that (14, or whatever the average would be scaled to).

Edit: Wow, okay. That picture was a little too big. Removed!
Anyhow...is anybody ever going to post again here?? I'd like to get some feedback, because I have more ideas than just a generic cat class thing. I wanna know that I'm doing it right first. A bestiary is a very good idea, regardless of whether it's used for tamers, the After Chronicles Book, or the Core Book itself. So let's get to it already!

[Child of Flame]

Double Post. BUMP.

Although now I wonder why Tamers don't have EP.
If everyone in the world is tethered by EP and everyone possesses it, then how come Tamers don't have their own ability that comes with EP? Tamers are beings, too!

[DC_Desperado]

It comes down to the technicallity that we haven't been able to come up with a way for them to have EP that makes some kind of logical sense..... I will however make a thread to talk about the tamers soley...