Evasion: Is it Too Low?

[Lurid Sorcerer]

While playing Kalarsys yesterday, it became apparent that ACC and EVA are not close enough to be competitive. Should we change it to just flat DEX, DEX+1, average DEX and some other stat?

Oh, and shields could help, but that's for a different thread.

[Perilaxis]

I think the Dex plus one would make things a little better keeps things fair and to rationalize in battle with adrenalin pumping your reaction time would go up.

[Child of Flame]

Yeah I kinda agree but seriously, when do we ever really use DEX outside of battle?
I also kinda go for the average of CON and DEX, even though for most people, it would come out the same as DEX -1.
As I see it, making a thief-type class is pretty much useless (AKA 3 points in skill), and thus is the reason we're working on concentration so this kinda ties into the other discussion on the board. The way I figure, a thief character would want to dump more points in CON/DEX and eventually their EVA would be a lot higher.

On a side note, I would really like to play a session where we're already beefed out to see how well these systems would hold out. The systems sound great for new characters and all but we don't know for sure if they'll work for later characters. That's why I'm kinda against the DEX +1 thing, because Thieves get no bonus for doing what they do best!

Edit:
Well not really a bonus, you know what I mean. There's no difference between classes right now. And I know the discussion's about EVA, but that's a primary thief/rouge/assassin skill!

[Zain Winters]

yeeeaaah i was thinking the same thing CoF said when i read Lurid's post, itd help con out which con could be used for more skill related things...(pickpockting....sneaking........stuff........) so itd give con another use and make it pretty usefull, specially if we did use con as more of an ability skill <.< >.>...

[Torke]

im actually against mixing con with dex for evasion.. because whatever your lvl in skill is (1-3) will determine your eva... so if you have a 1 in skill you now have 3 eva if you have 2 in skill you would still have 3 eva and if you have 3 in skill thats 4 in eva so all in all it seems rather pointless to me.

[Zain Winters]

also a good point......it wouldnt be bad if we did like ata combine two skills outside of skill...unfortunatly that doesnt work or make sense eva wise xD

[Lurid Sorcerer]

There's lots of uses for DEX outside of battle! Running, jumping, dancing (?), surgery, lockpicking... anything that requires speed or precision would use DEX. I suppose something like surgery or lockpicking would also factor in CON, but.. the point is: DEX has uses outside of battle.

I don't like using CON either. When you factor things together, as is the case with ACC and HP, the stats that are combined come from different categories. I like this because it passively forces balance on characters. Powerhouse characters may want to boost up their HP as much as possible by giving themselves extremely high WIL and putting 3 in their Body. They leave 1 in their Skill, and their low DEX holds their ACC down. If they go with a higher DEX than WIL, they end up with fewer HP. This way characters can't be powerhouses in every way right from the start.

I had a revelation while I was typing that, though. CON is going to factor into a few things, but what gets used (for humans) even less often than CON? Why, INT of course!! Why not average INT and DEX and use that for EVA? To evade, you need to be able to predict your opponent's moves and then be able to get out of the way of them, right?

[Child of Flame]

But somehow characters end up being powerhouses anyway for the most part. Like I said before (outside of the board), there's such high emphasis on Body and little on everything else. A thief character only really needs a 2 in Skill to be really useful right now.

The way I figured it was that since everybody usually takes some form of armor during the character creation process that warriors would want to soak the damage anyway because either way their evasion's going to be low (or use that 'bracing yourself' skill to dump some CON into your VIT). A human with 3 Mind shouldn't even be on the battle field (and at this point in the book's creation it is a really stupid character to make), and then it would benefit the Skill guy the most.

But I can understand the whole overpowering thing and agree with INT, too. After all, the Mind guy would be smart enough to get out of the way from a slower character being bogged down with armor and stuff.

[Perilaxis]

Good idea actually... we got so wrapped up in trying to come up with useful ways to use CON we completely forget the other things.... INT+DEX..... then halved? It seems to work.... and a human with a 3 Mind could be useful in battle as long as they stand back and use longer ranged weapons...

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Exactly! I'm not going to change the book and character sheet until more people weight in on it, though.

Also, I was thinking about changing ACC to an average of CON and STR. To hit a target you have to focus on them and be able to speedily move your weapon there, right? If we do that, then EVERY STAT WILL FACTOR INTO COMBAT.

Still, I think the system is too combat-centric. However, once we get enough work on our setting done it'll be easier to find more stuff to do than hit each other with swords.

[Zain Winters]

im all for everything you just said lurid! and all stats factoring into combat would be good, thenwe wouldnt have to worry about a char we want to make that may endup useless in combat, even if it is useless offensively xD...but still itd be really useful specially for character customization

[Perilaxis]

I agree for the sole purpose of systematically forcing players to balance out characters. Otherwise players trying to play focus almost solely on the combat aspect of the game which means games become more limited or start making people mad when non-combat situations arise that they can't handle because of poor planing on their part.... to quote The Mumple "Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." Yay Mumple. Time I think to begin the test runs.....

[Lurid Sorcerer]

I was doing some test battling and came up with this idea:

6s in ACC rolls are added to the damage roll (re-rolled, not just automatic like they have been).
6s in EVA rolls are added to the defense roll (also re-rolled).

This way if you get three 6s in your EVA and still get hit, they won't be completely wasted.

[Zain Winters]

sounds alittle overpower in VIT wise...but then again it shouldn't be since your most likely going to have crappy VIT if you have high EVA...so ill vote for lurid on this one

[Child of Flame]

You think if you got three sixes (out of three dice for most beginning players), that would just be considered an automatic evasion or something O.o Kinda like how two sixes everywhere else is an extra success.

But for those of us who aren't ever that lucky, I like the whole 6's get re-rolled thing. Especially for the warriors who get crazy-overpowered with just one attack. Like Zain said...you tested it out yourself, so you know better than the rest of us right now if it works.

To Lurid: But if we all agree on this, that means another dice-roller's gotta be made for the changes. You prolly already knew that though. ^_^