Working on the Book

[Lurid Sorcerer]

I probably could have posted this stuff in an old thread, but I'm too lazy to go looking for one and they're probably all stuffed with unanswered questions anyway. :-p

I've been working on the book and getting quite a bit done (including reading up on copyright stuff). However, there's some stuff I don't want to handle without input from you guys. Here's what I need to work on in the book that I could use some help with:

Example abilities and flaws: I have a list back at college that I'll need to reference. (WHY DID I THINK I DIDN'T NEED THAT NOTEBOOK!?!?!) I'll go through that and post the ones in there, but chances are we'll want to add some more.

Unblockable damage: First, the term "soaking" is specific to the old White Wolf game system (I think) an I'd rather not use it. "Unblockable" may be a better term. In any case, how do you guys feel about making 6s rolled in a damage roll unblockable? (This would not count for the bonus points gotten from having double 6s, mind you. Having two 6s give two unblockable damage, not three.) Maybe these should be able to be counteracted by 6s in the defense roll? I already know how some of you feel about this, but you may as well post anyway to let everyone else know.

Evasion-bonus Defense: Getting 6s on an accuracy roll gives bonus damage dice. How about 6s in an evasion roll give bonus defense dice? Good idea?

Dealing with accuracy/evasion ties: When this happens, we usually roll off with one die. I'm pretty sure this also comes from White Wolf. Regardless, I think it would be better to just split it halfway. The attack lands, but the attacker rolls only half of their damage dice (rounded up). Should help to speed things up by making fewer rolls, plus I think it makes more sense. I know we have a way of handling close rolls, but it's a bit complicated and thus I'd like to include it in the mythical Advanced Combat Book that I may or may not write before we all wither and die. Good rule? Should it be in the core book?

Copyright junk: Like I said before Kalarsys is already protected. I inserted a proper copyright notice into the book to help on that front. However, if I actually register a copyright for the book with the US Copyright Office, I get a sweet certificate that will hold up much better in court for a nominal fee of $45. Do it? Don't do it? Call a lawyer for advice?

The newly-added game-play example: READ IT! Do you think it would be helpful for new players? Too long? Too short? Missing some key concepts that are important to demonstrate? Can you guess where the player's names come from?

New evasion rule: Instead of losing an action on the next turn (which we always get confused about, forget, etc.), how about every character can try to dodge one attack each round?

[Perilaxis]

So for abilities and such I have a few suggestions but Nobody thinks they're good and to be honest Nobody's probobly right.
moving on...
If someone else had "soaking" first don't use it. it might not bite us now but down the road it will. "Blocking" is a good term but some people might get confused about the meaning regardless of how we spell it out and set the rule in stone chances are I know a gay troll that will argue with the talespinner over it so maybe something else, I don't actually have a suggestion i'm just saying. As for sixes becoming un-whateverable damage wise I don't know if thats such a great idea. I'm all for extra damage, but considering some of the dice pools that my charater gets after accuracy (and that i'm good enough with my Shodowphasing for my target not getting to dodge all the time) making even two or three un- "fuck your Vit rolls" makes it seem like all characters are more powerful than they should be.

I dont think that one should get def bonuses for 6's on eva. Reason being: your moving to get out of the way not positioning for least possible dam. again all for explioting every advantage you give me but with defenders in particular that could become a major problem very quickly. If we decide to try making 6's unblockable then we may want to test this with it too but not one without the other... which reminds me would these systems work the same when encountering magic?

I like the thought for this next one. the attack still hits and damage is reduced on a tie, which is one more reason not to add the two rules above to the rolls just make stuff like that yet more complex and as i've been told time and time again complexity is a bad thing here.

$45 dollars for a certificarte that says we thought of it first... i'll pay for it myself in full you'll have the money next we meet.

I haven't read the test play yet i'll weigh in on it when I have

Evasion: How about instead of free evasion and what not... if I remember combat system correctly even if it takes a few hours its supposed to simulate seconds..... How about it becomes harder to dodge with each sucssesive attack Example: A random guy (A) with Eva of 5 is fighting three oppnents (B1,2,3). B1 attacks, A gets the full 5 evasion, B2 attacks, A gets Eva-1 for 4 eva, and so on, if by chance B2 hits then A's next dodge would get another -2 one for dodging again and one for recovery penalty So A's modified eva would be Eva-3 two for dodging successive attacks and one because he got hit once. Evading attacks wouldn't cost any actions. Just a thought.

Well TTFN Ta Ta For Now

[Zain Winters]

welllll, ill keep in mind the example abilities and stuff, i like the unblockable damage, just because it gives getting a 6 all that better. ALTHOUGH i can see where parilaxes is coming from. it just may be alittle over powered even though 6s are rare...well atleast they're supposed to be. same comment with the evasion. id have to say i perfer the 6s actually doing something, but i wont be torn if this rule doesnt pass because it can be overpowered like i just said, but like i just said again, actually making 6s special on that makes 6s..even more special.
as for the copyright, i dont see why not if its only 45$ hell if we all split that itd only cost about 5$ each!, or if parilaxes really wants to pay for it ..
I also like Lurid's new evasion roll thing. i also like parlixes idea but that seems alittle complicated or atleast gives a guy with insane evasion alittle to much upper hand. in a session ive been playing one guy me and torke fought had some pretty good evasion, but i was able to atleast take that 1 evasion per turn away from him so we could actually beat him (i was outta mp anyways...<.< >.>) and if you want to go into the seconds and real math of the battle system it could technically be considered imposable to evade more then once.
I liked the play example, for the most part it hit it pretty spot on ol chap!, but in any case i think it would be pretty helpful for strictly 100% starters to the...genre i guess

[Child of Flame]

Example abilities and flaws? Why, I recall a thread I made addressing just that!
luridsworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=demons&action=display&thread=144

Of course...it's all buried now. On Page 2....I also have a small list in my folder. ^.^

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Unblockable damage: In the few sessions that we have tried this out, it seems to do its job. For someone who may not be strong enough to take on a huge ogre, this gives the PCs (player characters, n00blets) a little bit of hope (hope, mind you. Not the upper hand) in a dreary battle.

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Evasion-Bonus Defense: Same here. It works, but not too much to be overpowered. I can kinda see where Perilaxis is saying, though. Evading in real life doesn't really give you any VIT bonus. However, for the sole purposes of testing this out, it works (remember, for this and the unblockable damage, any 6's in eva/acc are re-rolled, respectively).
Working in conjunction with the Unblockable Damage, the two 'rules' balance each other out. In translation, I'm saying that you shouldn't have one without the other, if we're to use them at all.

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Dealing with accuracy/evasion ties: Ahhh I dunno so much about this one. Doing a quick roll-off isn't so bad for my head to grasp then have to do math in my head. Instead of halving the damage dice, why not just halve the damage done? Either way, you are pretty much saying that "if the attacker hits in this situation, it's not going to do much damage if any at all", meaning we might as well just stick with the old stuff. Moreover, if an attacker happens to botch his/her damage roll, it would just add more insult to injury. Roll a die, flip a coin to see if the attack lands or not. And if the attacker misses, it's good roleplaying practice for the TS and PC.

TS: Simon lunges forward, but Ralfina just barely got out of his way. Unfortunately, her hair did not.

Ralfina: OMG it took me YEARS to grow that blah blah...

Alright get the idea? T_T This is why I don't TS. ... ...

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Copyright junk: DO THIS. I've told you so many times before that you must. It probably should have already been done before it was released on the internet so that perfect strangers don't lovingly steal everyone's hard work and ideas. Or coworkers of said people.

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Gameplay Example: Dude, you should've told us to re-read the book first. XD I can't think of where you got the name Will from...sounds like a character's name I should know. ^_^
Anyhoo, I like it. Very basic, very easy to follow. Maybe the combat could have been drawn out more to see what it's like to have more than one character fighting, though. And that would come with two player's having the same DEX and rolling off! But other than that, it was good. Not too much emphasis on the role-playing aspect, either, which is also good. Not everybody's gotta be a drama queen.

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New Evasion Rule: I'm not really down with this too much...in essence, this gives a character 3 turns in one battle phase: Non-attack, attack, and evasive. To me, this could be confusing enough to keep track of what turns you did or didn't use. But I could see how this would be helpful, as it was in the session that Zain mentioned; our team of novices would have been decimated by the boss without it. But perhaps we should have been killed, because again, we were novices.
Rolls, rolls, rolls: This'll probably get shut down rather quick, but maybe do a fate roll (odd or even) to see if you have the chance to evade in the first place. Or maybe give a DEX minimum to take that extra action, since evading involves you being quick to begin with. I can see how a class such as an assassin or a thief could quickly become overpowered with their natural ability to evade more over others.

With that said, if the rule does get passed (I really don't care either way, I'm just trying to play Devil's Advocate here ^^), maybe we should meld it with Perilaxis's idea in a way. My idea in combining the two ideas here was that if you didn't use your non-attack action in the last turn, you may use that for a second evasion with a -1 or whatever to the evasion roll. I say 'or whatever' because if a character has an evasion of 9, taking that down to 8 isn't really going to hurt the character much. So perhaps such a cut in evasion would be relative to the character's total evasion (maybe halve it instead, for instance).
So in theory, a character would at most have two evasion rolls in one turn. And that's it. But the character must absolutely not take up their non-attack action beforehand.

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That's it!

[Torke]

Hmm unblockable damage sounds like a neat idea though it might be over powered. i think we should play test it and decide then.

i really like the DEF bonus for 6's on EVA roll and im sayin KEEP IT. but it should be play tested...

When ATT ties with EVA the ATT gets half damage.. hmm im not sure how i feel about it..but i think its a good idea. honestly i dont think this would need to be play tested =P but we might as well try it out [edit] the more i think about it the better it sounds. KEEP IT. [/edit]

the game play example is awesome and it should give just about anyone a real feel for the game. KEEP IT.

im not sure about one EVA per turn PLUS the regular 2 actions. TEST IT.

[Lt. Pwnage]

Okay, here are my thoughts(if they worth anything is up to you guys).

Examples abilities and flaws

I have a list of flaws that I draw information from. It's a online RPG site called Dark World. It is really good place to pick up flaws fro those who can't think of any. Link included- www.darkworldrpg.com/lore/flaws.html.

Unblockable/6s to Defence

I count these as the same thing because I agree Perilaxis and CoF that you can't have one without the other. I don't like the idea, I think it makes things more complicated. Maybe if they same Vit and you are using a sharp weapon he could take 1 damage. But if someone did 3 dam and 2 were 6s and someone absorbed 6 and takes 2 unblockable thats kinda cheap.

Side note instead of Soaking why not absorbing cause that's what armor does right?

Evasion and Attack timing

I like the idea of instead of rolling off the attack hits with half damage. Because he got nicked some that's not all attack going there. I just nicked that may not be a powerful blow.

Copyright

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evasion Action

I always believed that evasion never took action. Some only having two actions I would like to keep; however, If someone is being attacked by more then one person the first evasion roll should be their full evasion. On the second evasion roll should be halved for the rest of evasion rolls afterwards.
EXAMPLE.... PC is attacked by 3 targets, His evasion is 6, E1 attacks, PC gets his full 6 evasion, E2 attacks, PC gets a evasion of 3, E3 attacks, PC gets a evasion of 3.

Those are my thoughts say what you like and say what you don't like.

[Child of Flame]

I dunno, I was kinda going along with the idea that if sixes in your damage meant it was unblockable, then sixes in your Vitality roll would cneutralize the so-called 'unblockable' damage. But then, why would we have any of these sixes re-rolled and such if they could be countered and ultimately not do anything more than just not using these rules at all?

Maybe instead of every six being an extra damage in being unblockable, that maybe every two sixes would equal to just 1 unblockable damage. That wouldn't be so bad, right? But then we get into the problems that these rules are complicated enough as it is. This all came about in the first place because it felt like sixes weren't getting rewarded enough. Maybe along with having the sixes performing ridiculous feats, getting ones in your rolls would be equally powerful in the way a PC would not like.

In the game of Kalarsys, evasion always took up the non-attack turn of your two turn battle phase. Lurid now wants to give one freebie evasion roll. My problem with the rule is that characters in their first session or two would not be so...gifted in evading so much. An awesome ninja with a 30 in their DEX might be, yes, but not a fledgling little dude cowering in the corner with his shortsword. XD

Maybe multiple evasions wouldn't be so bad, though. I think evasion should constantly get halved for every time you must dodge, though. So taking your example above, ltpwnage, by the time the third enemy attacks, the PC would have an evasion of 2. And if a fourth enemy decided to attack, then the evasion would be 1. I would even go as far to say if someone that got attacked that much wouldn't be able to fight back in the next turn because they'd just be constantly dodging. Or out of breath.

But how many times is going to happen in a real session, where one character is getting gang-banged by three or four guys? What happened to the rest of the party? Did the TS punish you for separating or is the TS a bad TS (for example, I could see myself doing this on accident because I wouldn't know how to gauge the strength of the PC)? If you didn't have a party, then why are you travelling alone in the world of Kalarsys? How many times would the problem of evading multiple times come up over the course of several sessions? It's good to establish a rule just in case (and it is a good rule in and of itself), but I don't wish to see TSs trying to overwhelm the players because of such a rule. Ya see?

[Zain Winters]

uh not to shoot down your agruments at all but with the unblockable damage also comes the 6s on vitality soaking that, but i do see how that can be redundant and just have the whole thing scrapped. all it does is make sixes special.
how dare you attack my tsing <.<, if your charecter is good enough or atleast well thought out fighting, there is no reason they cannot take two enemies at once. and vice versa with an enemy taking two of you at once. annnd trust me i am NOT new to tsing..
on the zenshou part (no one knows how that goddamn word is spelled, LURID GET IN HERE!, im sure im not even spelling it right anymore), if we make it a race again that could be kinda weird, well then again it could also make more sense because of they are well capable on there own, they shouldnt need a class. but by doing that we cant have a zenshou be in the party of other races, well we can but its iffy, especially if zenshou still eat people <.<, but things could be changed, although the biggest part of this project (or so i thought) was so all classes could be used together, and as dark as zenshous are i can understand them being a race, and having a zenshou in the party is kinda strange compared to the rest of the group but its really an iffy subject, i still follow what i put down of course.
The fighter thing is iffy, cause it COULD do insane damage, if your not doing to much to something with 3 vit then thats just the curse of the roll there, but i do agree a fighter should be putting out the most damage out of everything. but that again could be way to over powerful, dropping it down alittle wouldnt be to bad, because from the looks of it you just got some really crappy rolls there and we cant exactly justify something being underpowered because of bad rolls. i like the idea, hate the potential for overpoweredness, but i still like it.
i dont know if im for that defender not wearing armor, i guess ina weird tribal way it could make sense but there isnt a limitation thats keeping them from using it (here i am argueing realism when i was just telling everyone to fuck realism in the face when it came to zenshou XD) but! i do like the magic being soaked by wil instead of vit, wil is slowly becoming our unused skill (con has enough uses now which i remeber it having NO uses) but i kinda fail to really see how your defender isnt dishing out any damage (no numbers anywhere <.< >.>) especially with 5 prof! but if a defender has that much vit, the TS should be alittle smarter and have the enemies bust out some call shots or stuff, i remeber putting jac's defender to her knees at times. yet she was still the hardhitter of the group, although she focused most of her xp to her str and stuff so that prolly explains that. if your 15 sessions in with wep prof of 5 im sure youve either spent a shitload of xp to get there and left your stats in the air (no clue how much xp your gettin a session but even at 10xp per session thats alot) or you just..be...gettin...sucky rolls? <.< >.>

yes you can be quite arrogant but trust me ive seen alot worse ^^ atleast alot of that was either good ideas or intelligent thinking d(^.^)b

PS. wrong place for most of the stuff you posted. alot of it shoulda been in the after chronicles

[Lt. Pwnage]

I guess I see that sixes on a Vit would cancel would make the rule workable, but I still think it add complucations and would probably be forgotten. It seems unneeded.

As for evasion being halved per dodge CoF, It is only cut in half once. Like if you being attacked by two creatures because a party member fell or it just does not like you. Your first dodge is full and your second dodge is halfed. the third dodge (if there is one and it has happened to me before) it would be same as the evasion in the second Dodge.

Ex: Eva of PC: 5
1st Dodge=5, 2nd Dodge= 3, 3rd dodge=3, 4th dodge(this will probably never happen)=3

It is cut in half once. I was thinking this could make someone with like a dex of 8-12 at least hitable.

[GMidge]

Thank you Zain, you didnt really shoot any of my ideas down, you just said that they are possible, and thank you for that, oh and i wasnt dissing your Tsing XD cause i do it too lol. Plus i was talking about more than two on one, hell i threw 7 archers at Lt.P and 5 Ghosts at Perilaxis, 4 tenicals that could respawn against Nocturnal Angel. If your character cant take on 2 guys at once thats sad... but anyway. I will re post this in the other thingy thanks lol.

ok then i say why have the 6s rule, it would be diffuclt to keep track of and in my opinion we dont need it. (long stroy short i agree with Lt.P)

Zenchou eating humans could easily change, they could just need to eat meat, again in DC session, Nocturnal Angel is a Zenchou and survives on eating meat

And my rolls and luck F-ing SUCK!!! lol so yes it would need to be tested, maybe lvl 1 and 2 could do +1, 3 and 4 could do +2 and then 5 +3, and 6 +4? maybe? or something like that, im just tired of the fighter being useless.

Defender thing, granted i had a Great axe gave me -3 acc..... lol and when i actually hit, my rolls were crap lol. Hell if i took my armor off in DC's session, i could still take a crap load of damage and be ok i mean hell now my hp is 19.... Vit9 and will 10...thats were my exp went XD i went total brickshit house lol

and thanks for the complement i feel better lol

[Child of Flame]

XD Yeah, I realize that. But I'm saying that it should continue being halved. The more you are dodging, the less likely it's going to be successful, get it?

If someone with a Dex of 12 gets hit twice, then it's halved to 6...he still has a chance of dodging. But if he gets hit by a third person, then at least he has a chance of being hit with a DEX of 3 (eva 4). If you just halve it once, the character is likely to never get hit, making the "halve once" penalty later on in the game completely useless.

Get it?

Welcome to the forums, gmidge, but like Zain said, over half of that is off topic...you could copy and paste everything from your Zenshou topic down to The After Chronicles book (and erase it here), that'd be sweet. When you do that, I'll give my opinion on the matter (if you care at all to hear it).

Like I was talking with Zain about, if in the unlikely chance that a character were to get an amazing 7 on their vitality roll (amazing in the first few sessions, at least) while another character rolls 2 unblockable damage, I as a TS would probably null at least one of the unblockable damage. It doesn't always have to be cheap, and you don't always have to play by the rules in Kalarsys (as in, a lot of TSs I've played with honored the dice and were forgiving in that aspect of the game).

Man, I wish Lurid would post soon. Or DC. Their opinions matter too.

[Nocturnal Angel]

dc might take awhole on the posting. he has a stomac bug that has him bead stuck at the moment. But i do agree with both CoF and Zain. the zenshoue.... wow i cant even sperll it..... stuff should be put into the after chronicals. sorry i dont got alot of opinions but i do agree there should be a copywrite made. i believe i mentioned that to dc once. but i also want to thro out there if there is any changes to dice rolls and stuff make sure it can not be munchinized buy people whhome like to buff out their charactors or taken atvantage of....... im sure Cof will read this and laugh cause half way thru i fogot what i was talking about.... sorry...

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Okay, let me go through all of the stuff posted and see what I think we came up with.

Example abilities and flaws: We evidently already did this. I'll grab my list when I get back to school, and I think we'll be okay then. If anyone has any more suggestions you can go ahead and post them here or in the thread CoF linked to, but we should be fine.

Unblockable Damage: I guess I'm way to used to suggesting something and having everyone tell me it's an awesome idea. :-p Please consider that rolling 6s isn't very common (~17%) so getting more than one or two of them in a roll will be quite uncommon. Also, don't forget that 6s in the defense roll will knock out 6s in the damage roll. Still, there seems to be more resentment for this idea than otherwise.

Evasion-bonus Defense: There's some disdain for this one, also. The thinking behind it is that 6s in the accuracy roll mean the attack hit the target more squarely, making it more effective. On the evasion side, it isn't too different. A character manages to move, causing the attack to not hit as well, thus decreasing its effectiveness. The attack still lands, but does less damage. Consider an axe someone has hurled towards your face. You try to sidestep but the axe hits you in the shoulder. Also, it gives incentive to attempt a dodge even when you know you probably won't succeed. In real life, if someone were to swing a sword at you and you thought you probably were going to get hit, would you stand there and let them do it or would you attempt to get away as best you could and try to minimize the damage?

Dealing with accuracy/evasion ties: Is anyone except Perilaxis opposed to this? So far, it looks like it's going into the book.

Copyright Junk: Let's keep in mind that the book is ALREADY PROTECTED UNDER COPYRIGHT LAW. The protection is not nearly as strong until I register officially, and I suppose that's enough for everyone to keep their strong positions on this matter. Next time we all get together I'll see how much money I can scrape from everyone to try and get this done. Sounds like it's time for me to start collecting guild dues! ;-D

Game-play Example: Everyone who mentioned that they read it seemed to like it so I guess it's going to stay. Woot! No one seems to have guessed where the players' names come from yet, but I'm pretty sure I actually told a couple of you... I'm horrible with secrets.

New Evasion Rule: I think we all know how much I hate agreeing with Perilaxis, but I think his rule might be a bit better than what I suggested. Lt.P's rule allows for infinite evasion with only one point at which there is any penalty and mine only allows for one evasion per round. Seems like most of everyone was okay with what he suggested, so should we go with that?

Okay, let's try to keep the core rulebook stuff and the After Chronicles stuff separate. This thread is only here to help guide me while I work on the rulebook. And as much as I'd like to rant and rave on and on and on and on and on and on about the stuff in the After Chronicles book, that belongs in the other popular thread around here.

By the way, it's spell "Zenshou". It is a Japanese word with many interesting meanings that go well with what the Zenshou are. Please see the After Chronicles thread for more details.

[Lt. Pwnage]

Okay CoF you want to continually cut Dex in half for each attack then. I'm okay with it. It does make sense; however the most targets one would be hit by at most is 2.

So cut Dex in half for each target after first that seems fair.

Lurid because Im curious whose rule mine or Peril's

[Perilaxis]

Lurid this just proves I'm capable of reasoned thought and good ideas occasionally...... HA! TAKE THAT SPITEFUL MIDDLE SCHOOL GUIDANCE COUNCILER! FUCK YOU YOU UGLY BITCH!