Working on the Book

[Lt. Pwnage]

Not to sound like a GIANT DOUCHE but the only difference I see with the new and old tables is that the tables title "Shield" moved to the middle........XP weird...........

[DC_Desperado]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lurid Sorcerer]

The name of the table is against a dark gray background. The title of each column is now against a light (maybe too light) gray background. And yes, all of the titles are centered.

The example I picked wasn't a particularly good one, I guess. The main thing I was correcting was the fact that the tables were all pretty non-uniform, both in appearance and the way I'd coded them. Now they're all nice and uniform in the new style.

[DC_Desperado]

[Lt. Pwnage]

To Lurid: Ah I see so its more uniform now, the example didn't really show that thanks for clarifying.
PS: I was also trying to be funny and for that I apologize.

To D_C: It takes a Douche to know a Douche.....and I hate you!!!!!

To all who view: I may have started something that I cant undo.....

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Don't worry, I can undo it if I have to. I really don't want to have to, though.

[Lt. Pwnage]

It's alright no harm really.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Been working on the book again. Here's a summary:

• New magic system moved into the book.
  
• Abilities removed: Fast Healing, Superior Sense, Crafting
  
• Abilities finished: Disguise, Weapon Skill (Ironic, no?), Hobby/Job, Magic
  

Now, before anyone gets their underwear in a knot about Fast Healing going away, it isn't permanently gone. There's going to be a new class of abilities it will be placed into. (Also, I don't recall anyone ever taking it, to be honest.) This new class of abilities will use Trine, so I can stop bitching about how that rolling system has gone unused.

Crafting, however, is removed because the system for it needs a lot of work. I like how it's coming along, but it is going to take a long time and may end up being just too complicated for the core book.

All that remains before v0.7.1 is finished are 6 Abilities and 10 Flaws, and some of these might even get chopped out. CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!? I'll finally be able to increment the version number at long last!

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Goals for 0.7.3:
- Layout cleanup
- Thrown/projectile weapons 
- Clarification of armor and shields 
- Regular testing/balancing/typo-fixing stuff

Version 0.7.3 is intended to be the last of the 0.7 line. Barring any emergency fixes, development will move to 0.8.0. The focus of this new line will be on the character stats. For years the six have defined our characters, but I don't feel that social interaction is well represented. The idea is to experiment with replacing Concentration with a new stat, tentatively named Charisma, and adjusting the game's formulas accordingly.

[DC_Desperado]

Changing CON to CHA raises some concerns. I can understand wanting a stat that would reflect the more social aspects of kalarsys. However, I don't really see why it needs to be a stat. In my opinion... The six base stats reflect ones aptitudes. Its all a matter of how you look at each stat. Some people look at INT as nothing but straight book smarts. I however see it as not how smart you are, but how smart you CAN be. When mauling around the idea of making CHA a stat I starting thinking of functionality.

STR: not only is the prominent Melee DMG stat, but it also factors into how much weight a character can lift and it plays a factor in melee accuracy.
VIT: Plays the role of physical endurance, HP calculations, Stamina, and in some case... poison resistance.
INT: Primary Magic DMG, and Proficiency level cap.
WIL: Magic resistance, HP calculations, mental endurance.
DEX: Character speed/agility, EVA, turn order.
CON: Plays a role in both melee and ranged accuracy, and deals with any reaction based story/ character event.

CHA: the ability to talk/ persuade others.

Im sorry if I may be narrow minded when I say that CHA only has a singular use as a stat. However, I suggest it stay a proficiency were it can be more easily mold able and we can figure out dice calculations for for Charisma out of the original six stat. I like to look at the proficiency list and divide it up under a governing stat. Like charisma would be INT base, and awareness is CON based.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

First, I just want to thank everyone who has been helping me with my new work on Kalarsys, be it here on the board or elsewhere. It really does mean a hell of a lot to me.

First, Charisma is perhaps a poor name for what I wanted to represent with the stat. It would not simply be talking others to do your bidding, or winning supporters to your side. It would cover the whole array of social interaction, a collection of how well-kept someone is, their choice of words, their self-confidence: all of the things that make one good at dealing with other people. It could be used when making requests, telling lies, giving performances, speaking publicly, interrogating, intimidating, etc... Lots of things that are, perhaps, better handled by good role-playing.

So I'll hold off on the CON/CHA debate for now. It's an issue that has ballooned in complexity, despite how simple I thought it was.

Anyway, here's one that I hope will be much easier to swallow:

---

I want to remove HP, ACC and EVA from the Stats portion of the character sheet. Instead, I want to create a new section at the bottom that holds all of the combat-related stats and equipment. Furthermore, I want to change the following formulas:

Stat	Current Formula	New Formula
Accuracy	((STR+CON)/2)+AbilityLevel-WeaponACC	CON+AbilityLevel-WeaponACC
Defense	VIT+ChestArmor	VIT+ChestArmor
Evasion	DEX+1	DEX+Shield-ArmorWeight

Here are some preemptive excuses to quell your complaints:

What the hell is wrong with the current formulas? I like 'em!

First, I don't understand why we go through so many steps to get ACC, just go plug the result in another formula and grind it out further. Why not use a simpler formula, once for each weapon, and be done with it?

I thought you wanted to get rid of CON, but you're using it here! HYPOCRITE!

We can switch it to DEX (which was my original plan, until the CON debate became such as complicated issue). Besides, it ensures every stat (except INT) is directly involved in combat, which is a huge portion of what the stats are used for anyway.

Hey! Defense is the same!

Yes.

I thought you wanted simpler formulas, but the Evasion one got more complicated! LIAR!

If you think about it, it's actually a hell of a lot less complicated. First, the +1 is completely arbitrary. I pulled it out of my ass (figuratively, of course) and threw it in the book because people weren't dodging very often. The fact that armor weight is in the formula isn't really a change; armor is supposed to reduce DEX, which in turn reduces EVA, but no one ever kept track of it. It was actually pretty complicated to do. Finally, shields had their own, completely separate, ass-backwards, convoluted system for use that would be used in place of EVA. Including armor weight and Shields directly into EVA with a simple formula obviates the need for two weighty, entirely unnecessary systems in one fell swoop.

Why move all this junk to a separate place!? They're STATS, and they belong with the STATS!

That's not strictly true: it combines the character's stats and equipment in one place, quickly and easily found during the heat of combat.

I sure hope you're going to rebalance the equipment charts to account for this shit!

I sure am, and Zain and I have already done a bit of playtesting. So, neener-neener.

[DC_Desperado]

I like the idea of moving all acc,eva, ect. to another section with the other combat related information.... and yes the system for shields needs work, but thats another topic for another time.

[Zain Winters]

and with that i really don't have any arguments against all of this. I'm for the Charisma stat. mostly due to Con's use is something we had to force. It never came fluently like the rest of the stats. Con used to be actually 100% useless (or damn close outside the usual "LOL I HAS 0 CON!" then we'd rape that guy..) yeah it's factored into melee stuff. only because we really wanted to give it some meaning, so we forced the melee factors onto it.

You guys keep putting these topics back yet i don't see any other topic open for debate XD so shields.
i..don't recall the testing to much on them. (even though i was literally two inchs from where i am now about a few days ago when it was done) granted. I don't remember them being a problem with that formula you have up there. I recall armor being a bitch to any rangers but yeah. i think we solved that but hell if i remember..not sure if memory just sucks or medication is ruining memory <.<;

anywho, this isn't staying on one topic but. DC, you mentioned with Wil that it is used for..well let me copy pasta.


"WIL: Magic resistance, HP calculations, mental endurance."

What's the difference between mental endurance and concentrating?

Also there is a ton of really stupid fighters that while strong as fuck. get distracted by every little shiny thing. (granted that may be a moot argument with this one xD)
i'd think in a fight adrenaline would basically force the concentrating on it all. or perhaps INT would also in a way cover concentrating. But that may be a stretch.

i think i ran out of random things to make people think. I AM ZW! BRINGER OF TOPICS THAT WERE SKIPPED!

oh wait. all i did was bash Con. that's not very productive.

Charisma could also be used with the other abilities, Via the examples Lurid mentioned and well Cha+Str could in a way make whatever physical action you are doing more appealing. There is a difference between lifting a log. and lifting a log with style! you get the random things i'm saying. same with Cha+Vit\Int\Wil\Dex. It could make the action more appealing depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Which again brings it back to a social skill. Which is of course what it is.

[Lurid Sorcerer]

Feb 12, 2013 23:57:45 GMT -5 DC_Desperado said:

yes the system for shields needs work, but thats another topic for another time.

Not to be a GIANT DOUCHE but I'm kind of saying it's a topic for right now. Instead of the cumbersome system we had for it previously, shields just have a strength requirement and an EVA bonus. (You also need a free hand to use one, obviously.)

I had been thinking they wouldn't require an Ability to use, but I'm open to suggestions on that.

Feb 13, 2013 4:35:18 GMT -5 Zain Winters said:

Cha+Str could in a way make whatever physical action you are doing more appealing.

Like this?:


I think it would be best to leave CON alone for this round of updates. I'd certainly like to re-examine the way the stats are laid out, though. For 0.8.0, I want to thoroughly scrutinize the stats, and if replacing one improves things, great; if replacing all of them is better, greater.

Like I said, not now, but I'd like to see what stats we come up with to represent human capabilities. And if we need to change the categories, even more greater. Who knows? Perhaps Body/Mind/Skill will be replaced with Body/Brains/Bendability, or Muscle/Mental/Machete or even Strength/Smarts/Sausage.

==EDIT==

I just cleaned up the Combat chapter, and with the shields and armor worked out the way I explained earlier, the chapter shrunk by about half and is also much easier to understand. Just throwing that out there.